ty cayugad for the reply and no i am not trying to duplicate my 30.06 just used it as a example.the 200,250 grn shockwaves are out as well as the hornady 250 sst and 240xtp's tried them no good still have many of them left anyway i am going to go up to the 300grn bullet in a couple of these bullets over 90 to 100 grns loose 777 and see what happens!!