since 2 guys had no prolblems with martins i think i will look at them....adn i really like the hoyt..but i think it probly carrys the price tag that comes with the name...but i have a dealr right out the road...i will see..maybe its only 350 or 400 and i can still get it and not spend way over what id like to...if i dont get a job i wont be buying anything!!! i hope giant eagle is hiering in 2 weeks or so!!! thanx guys..