Bhunter50, Thanks. I rest my case. Most of us on here are way better at hunting whitetails than the pros. I said it. They get the deer because of where they can hunt. I have never been on an outfitted hunt, but I know many who have, and they told me that the amount of 125-140 class deer they see is rediculous. With that many deer you are bound to kill at least one. We don't give ourselves enough credit sometimes. Look what GregH has accomplished. Rest my case again. And for the guys on here that take big bucks on public land.....your are the best.