Ridge Runner, Please dont tell the deer around here that. I have been getting bang flops every since I started using 250gr Gold Dots and 110777 or 120 RS and I shoot them 3 or 4 inches above the heart where the ganglion center and the arterys are all together and go through both lungs, I used to shoot them in the same place with the same result with my 54 hawken and a round ball. Lee