i'm glad i went with the beman arrow...a little stiffer than the 2117, an inch shorter and over 100 grains lighter...still shooting a 438gr arrow including BH. it is getting more penetration than the 2117 at the same draw weight and yards...sometimes past the fletch instead of 8 or 10 inches...and hitting about the same spot maybe 2 to 3 inches different at 20 yds....
thank you aussie and all the others for your help.