Finner, the velvet bucks were about 15 yards from my stand. They came in while i was elk hunting. Could have taken them as well, the 5x4 was pretty spindly, the 4 was nice but i thought he would be a little nicer if i leftem. They gave me a good show anyways. 5x4 came in 3 consecutive nights and the final night he had some of his velvet hanging so that was neat. That stand up in the spruce was about 30 feet. The tree was so limby and easy to climb i just kept going, no pegs or sticks needed. I took my spiker elk out of that stand this year. Same spot i took my buck last year and a friend arrowed an elk there also last year. Neat place tucked back in a corner that is awesome.