I shot one bull and two deer that year with the gators. Killed thing dead the best penetration I got with them has on the bull at 40 yards it was a pass through. On the deer the penetration sucked it sounded like i was hit a borad when it hit and not going through. I will admit they did kill the deer dead big hole, but I love pass throughs, so I have never used them agian and I have about 10 new ones of then some were too in my archery junk and I have a lots of what I call archery junk