Thats what I was thinking. I figure not till about the first part of Nov. I have seen some rubs but the funny thing is there are none where i'm hunting ( which is a 1/4 mile up the road from me ) but there are some rubs on some small trees in my neighbors back yard, ( his lawn with a couple of small maple tree's in it ) I havnt seen the deer so they must be only coming there at night. Go figure, there are more sighn of deer in theback yard than in the woods of where I'm hunting, but I have seen deer there just nothing worth shooting. Well I did shoot at 1 doe but them dam little saplings scewed up my shot. That my story and I'm sticking to it lol.