I don't believe a couple of you've read all the previous posts. The rifles I mentioned are quality pieces-VERY quality pieces, both the Dakota M 10 and the Mannlicher-Schoenauer. CZ, Savage, and Mossberg are not the only arms mentioned. Some of those others are excellent, BUT when it comes to actually carrying a real nice pricey one out in the mountains, a certain reluctance sets in. For example, I have a Heym combination O/U that cost over 10 K, and several others that are worth nearly as much Not nearly as priceyas some British SXS double rifles, for sure. BUT I would never take THEM out in the woods, unless I were hunting from a hochsitz with a good set of stairs to climb!!

I hunt with my cheapie Ruger No. 1's, and a couple of custom muzzleloaders......

The reason the Krauts (and others in Europe) make hunting weapons of higher quality than Americqn mass-produced arms is because in Europe, ONLY THE WEALTHY can afford to hunt! The average Joe Blow hasn't a hope of ever being able to pay the costs involved in maintaining hunting grounds. Here, anyone can hunt because the game is owned by the government (people), not private individuals.