Lungbuster, You make the same arguement that I've heard time after time. My plan is flawed only because our world is flawed. To give up because of CWD is like saying I'm not going to have kids because I'm affraid they'l die of aids.
Yes precautions would have to be made. Bringing in a deseased animal would be a big risk. This was also a big part of the studies and why I would be more inclined just to move 25 or so elk from the Clam Lake herd to Black River Falls. The herd could use some fresh genetics but at what risk? Moving 25 elk to BRF would at least give our exsisting elk a better chance to survive if CWD get's up that far. If just 1 elk up at Clam Lake is infected, kiss the whole project good by.

"Also I don't know where you come up with your petting zoo mentality in the southern part of the state comment? "

What I mean by petting zoo mentallity is based on my experience living west of Madison. I lived near Lone Rock. Many of the small farms are gone and houses and urban sprawl is spreading. When ever a bear or wolf shows up, the DNR are right on it and shipping the animals back. I personally couldn't give a damn if a bear tears down you're laundry or bird feeders, put it back up a little higher. They'll put up with overpopulated deer herd because they're pretty. But no, if it's a dangerous animal it can't be there because predators don't do well in petting zoo's. They might bite! My deffinition of petting zoo mentallity is people wanting the cute friendly animals but don't want any predators around. News flash, you cant have the cute friendly critters without having predators. Without predators, everything dies. Go to England and see what I mean, they don't need guns, they got no critters to hunt. Mother nature just turns to desease instead of predation. History backs me up on this subject.
I also have seen 0 evidence that CWD can be spread through wolf dung. That's a new one, and I like to see proof of this. Even if the prions do survive in wolf dung, how many deer hang around eating wolf dung? Just another excuse based on flawed theories.
We've proven that the DNR's way of dealing with CWD isn't working. The plan to work means everyone has to cooperrate and that isn't happening. I can't tresspass onto lawyer Browns 10 acres, but let's see Lawyer Brown stop a wolf pack.
" I suggest you do some real research on CWD before you propose ideas and ways to keep it from heading towards your Elk."

This statment should be combined with the idea that the DNR has run out of funding. DNR funding comes from huntin money. Hunting money is declining because of CWD. It's a downward spiral, less deer less hunters less money. Bear hunting has picked up a little of the slack, but as the deer population falls, so will the bear population. The money elk hunting could bring to our state would be a boost in the right dirrection. Unfortunatly, we started the elk a littlle to late. If we would have started with 100 elk in 95 we'd be hunting elk right now and that money would be a great help.
I'd also like to say they are not MY elk. They are Wisconsin's elk. Your hunting money helped to put them in Clam Lake. Your money is paying for all the studies, radio collars and field research. The money has already been spent and it's a waist just sitting there doing nothing when we are so close!

"also I don't think it should come at the cost of wiping out the deer herd in a particular area (that is not sound management)."

Why would you blame the elk for wiping out the deer herd? Nature runs in cycles. Deer population go up, predator populations go up, deer populations go down, the predators poplation follows. That's how it's supposed to work. We've had no predators for nearly 100 years or more, deer populations have been on the up part of the cycle for a hundred years because of man wiping out the predators and failing to manage the deer numbers. A 7 YEAR CYCLE HAS BEEN DELAYED FOR A CENTURY, do you really think we can just keep the up cycle going for another hundred years? I don't think so. History has shown that the only alternative to a down side of the cycle is extinction. If CWD doesn't bring the down cycle then it will be another desease. Look in the forums and see why the deer are dieing in Ill, MO. and other states. Not CWD, it's another virus and something called blue tongue. The deer herd is in truble. If we don't plan now, we won't have any big game in Wisconsin to hunt within our lifetime.
Wiping out the deer herd isn't something I want. I don't think we're going to have a choice in the matter. When any population gets too high, mother nature kicks in and balances things back out. To balance 100 years of overpopulation? Natures way is to wipe out most of the herd, and have a few survivors that develope a resistance to the desease to start the cycle over again. Add the DNR and who knows what will happen.
OUR Wisconsin Elk are a reality. We have 135 elk in Clam Lake. To stop now means to throw away all the study and research that has been done and continuing on.. The cost to move 25 elk from Clam Lake to BRF is peanuts. We spend more money on pheasants in Wisconsin a bird that's not supposed to be here. Elk ARE supposed to be here and in return could bring in 100 times the money pheasants bring Wisconsin. We spend billions of dollars on stupid things and yet can't spare a dime to help protect our elk investment? We sent millions of dollars to Africa to save the elephants and rino's but can't spare a buck for Wisconsin Elk? How about the man on the moon? That was a good investment. The elk have survived since 1995 with out much help, grown from 25 to 135 with an average of 15% growth every year. The impact on the environment has been studied and what they've found is that the land needs the elk. Bears feed on the young elk. More bears, more hunting. The elk are eating the native plants and making them stronger, helping to keep out invasive species that threaten the habitat. Ever angle of study shows the Clam Lake experiment has been more successful than anyone could have imagined!
So why are'nt we doing anything? CWD is the big problem. So what is the best and what is the worst things that could happen if we moved 25 elk to BRF from clam lake? CWD reaches both herds and kills them all. With the radio collars and field researchers that we are paying for anyways, they'll scoop up the remains and do the tests and determin what happened. If it's CWD the "prions" will be removed from the area with the dead carcasses and destroyed. At least the ones causing dead elk. We then send the researchers home and no more money is needed. We are paying for the research, for the radio collars and recapture studies no matter what until the last elk is gone.
Best thing to happen would be both herds survive and we hunt elk in 25-30 years. Starting a second herd will double the chances of survival. I say 2 herds because all the studies are done for BRF. If there was more studies for different area's I'd split them up into as many small starter herds as possible as far appart as possible. BRF the deer population is down, the wolf population is still exceptable and the time is now. We've got researchers following the wolves with radio collars, while they are there and costing us money, might as well have them track the elk too. Very cost efficient, it's in the budget.
I've said nothing about bring new elk in from other states. Budget wise, we got our 1st 25 free from Michegan. The 2nd 25 was also going to be from Michegan and I think they were going to be free also, not sure. LB made a very good point, we can't risk bringing deseased animals into our state. We could have a huntable herd much quicker importing more animals and new blood would be a good thing but the risk is too high. That's why I say move 25 from Clam lake. Study should be made to determin what numbers to move, maybe half the herd would be better?
Yes my plan may have some flaws in it but at least I'm thinking ahead and trying to find answers and raise awareness and have a plan. If you were to tell me 20 years ago that we would be able to hunt turkeys in every county of this state by 2007, I would have thaught you were smoking crack. I've lived in southwest Wisconsin, central Wisconsin, and now in the Fox Valley. I saw the first turkey to step foot on this soil in over 100 years this summer. I had a large Flock of PELICANS nesting on an island not 2 miles from my house this year. Elk hunting in Wisconsin is not that far fetched. We've got 135 Elk, what are we going to do with them? You can not tell me it's not worth any effort at all. You might think agood wolf is a dead wolf but that isn't going to make them go away. They will be here wether you like it or not. If you take the law into your own hands you aren't any better than a poacher. If we got to have wolves, then we might as well have elk. They force wolves upon us, to truely support wolves in nature you need the rest of the food chain intact also. Elk, buffalo, carabou, moose...... ALL native Wisconsin animals. Studies show that Elk have the best chance for reintroduction, the others are pretty much gonners.
The challenge is to find answers to all the excuses. Bring on the excuses and lets find the answers. Lungbuster is off to a great start, thank you for your reply LB. I challenge you and others to do as much research or more than I have on this subject with an open mind. DARE to dream a little and lets make this dream come true, if not for us, then for our grandchildren. 20 years from now I don't want to be telling my grandchildren how great deer hunting WAS in Wisconsin. I want them to tell me there stories of great deer hunting, elk hunting bear hunting that they have and I can tell them a time when we had no turkeys, cranes bears and elk. Maybe it will be your grandson fighting to reintroduce buffalo or Moose 20 years from now?
One of the worlds most dramatic turn arounds as far ase endangered species and animal management goes is the story of Africa. They cut down the forests to farm. They fought mother nature to scratch out a living by farming. Much like Wi.....
The wildlife would damage crops, kill livestock, the farmers would poach and kill, the wildlife was the enemy and the war was nearly over. (Sounds a lot like America's dairy land.) Then attitudes started to change. Save the animals, to heck with the farms, they realized that with little effort there cash crop wasn't cattle and corn, it was the wildlife. People come from all over the world, pay unbelievable amounts to take pictures and/or hunt only the managment animal that's allowed. That big bull elephant, that dangerous hippo, or rhino, or lion, or water buffalo. All nuesances 30 years ago, nearly ectinct, now worth more than there wait in gold. Cool part is most of the meat stays there to feed the people money stays there to support the people, we can learn a lot by looking at history, and what's worked else where. The cows are happier in California, let 'em go, buffalo is a lot better meat and a lot more fun to hunt. lol The best elk habitate in WI. is in southern Wi. believe it or not. I'd rather get my potato's from Idaho than to have to go to Idaho to elk hunt. I'd rather all the chemicals and fertalizers in those irragation systems through out that range (sandy dry soil) not polute our rivers, streams and lakes, don't tell me they aren't. I've worked in those fields, take a drive along HWY 14 from Madison west. 200 years ago that area was teaming with elk buffalo bears, wolves, now it's potato fields and corn fields owned by big industry. The family farms are getting swallowed up one by one the area is either dirt poor people or big city people with enough money to drive back and forth to Madison. These people see a bear in there garbage and call 911, the bear is shot or taken back north. The poor people, including my family that's still down there, know there's room for the bears, want them and hope someday to hunt them down in SW WI. but the urban sprawl, Madison city slickers want to live in a petting zoo and not allow the bears to stay. Can't imagine what they'll do when they find the wolves down there, but if any area needs wolves right now, it's the cwd zone.