Thanks Frank. I fell in love with a Havoc about 2 years ago and shot the 2002 Patriot last year. I guess I didn' t care for the feel of the patriot at that time. I thought when I shot the Havoc (Redline I think) that it was the perfect hunting bow. Found a great deal on a Havoc ( I think the TEC risers are hideous but love Hoyt) w/ versacam and the poundage I wanted so I might have my perfect partner!! I like the idea of being able to adjust the valley on a one cam. Great report!! Now do one on a 90# Samson for me at your DL so my jaw can hit the floor.