I appreciate it Greg. Let me take a pict of my loop tonight before I bother you on the phone. Cause one thing, my loop material is alot thicker than yours. Even after finally tightening with pliers in the end, my knots are much huger than yours. Even while putting mine on, I noticed the loop material to be much heavier than what was on there before. And I wish I had the slack you do to be able to really pull the second knot. These came in a pack of 3, and were 7" long.