Thanks for the info and the welcome.I put a sneak on a blacktail buck this morning,got to about 40 yds,that seems to be about the closest I can get with the terrain here.Mind you today is opening day gun season for my area,that little forkie was lucky Im holding out for his big brother (which i got to within 20 yds of two weeks ago with my compound bow),vegetation was just too dog-gone thick to work an arrow in.