like i said before i dont doubt that they work great most of the time but with todays heads why take the chance unless you have low KE. with my situation i stongly believe more cutting surface would have helped and i should have noted that the second shot was sticking out the other side of the deer the fletch was holding it in. i think they penetrate awsome i think my first shot went into the opposite rear leg on its way out and thats why i didnt pass through but with my second shot placement (likely one lung liver cause of quartering shot) i think with two arrows in it it should have dided within the time i gave it and if not died withing a 1/2 mile. just my situation i know tons of people have had deer go two feet and fall over but poor shots will happen once in awhile and i think that is where there is an advantage to more cutting surface. my recurve heads have two little bleeders that really cant soak up too much energy but will help cut that x shape in the hide and tissue.