I don't think it is the cartridge so much as the gun. The Winchester and Marlin lever action stocks are about the worst you can get for recoil. I shoot a hot loaded 45-70 out of an H&R that should be pushing about the same as a 450 Mar and I can do it all day. I'm a little sore afterwards but if I go to the range and come back without a little soreness I feel like I haven't even been.