The Speer .440 patch ball Wieghs in at about 165 grains . I was telling a guy after shooting some patch balls in a 26" .45 , as I remarked about how fast and flat they seemed with 90gns . He looks at me all dumb like " Hello 45-70 !?" . I'll bet that ball was clikking 26-2700 . You may see 3000 with 120 .