i shoot the first 3-1/2 that i think is big enough now. we had an agreement and he didn't hold up his end. I don't talk to them now. they shot a rack off a 5 piont last year and the one woman shot a deer with #6 bird shot she said she didn't check the bullets. every year we find a dead buck they they don't recover.They are piss poor hunters and thats all there is too it.