Thanks for all the responses. I'm really impressed with what I read and what I've shot in the 250 gr Barnes Expander MZ. I like the fact that they are all copper, expand into a nice size petal, and retain it's weight. I think they would make a excellent deer load. Like I said, my CVA groups them real well but I'd like to try the Havester Crushed Rib sabot with them. I don't own a caliper set, does anyone know what the 50 cal Barnes measure out to? The ones I bought of course came with the sabots. I'm not sure if they are a 44 cal or a 45 cal.