Where to begin?
First, yes, I'm going to believe a direct quote from a state biologist, where he quotes facts and figures, over some guy with personal experience, and nothing else, to back him up. Every time.

Now, you say these states have little in common with PA, and Jersey does. Wow, I'm accused of using a state or area where my point is more easily proved, is that right? Well, feel free to use any state, county, or area you want to prove your point. Not argue your point based on personal experience, but PROVE it. With the thousands of state workers and researchers studying the results of ARs every year, you'd think you could find one, just one, example of AR not improving the buck age strucure. Just one example supported by facts, I'd be happy with that, and consider it an eye opener, and a reason to more closely scrutinize what's happening in our area. But theere's not one instance being shown.
How many times can I make the point, I'm asking for PROOF, not one guy's opinion. For every case where you show a guy who shot a 10pt after passing a spike, I can find a guy who got skunked and whined about not being able to shoot that 4pt opening day.
In truth, you haven't pointed out any FACTS supporting ARs don't work, not a one. Just examples from a few zones, examples that I, and many others, feel are much more attributed to the antlerless harvest.
I'm not saying I don't agree with you, I'm not saying I think your wrong, but I have to wonder, with all the research going on, naysayers would be able to point out one shred of PROOF. What you wrote isn't PROOF, it's data that you have to admit could be affected by numerous other changes in the management of the species.
There's lots of states where ARs have been added, but they didn't add an unlimited antlerless slaughter, can you find even one where the buck age structure didn't improve? I haven't been able to thus far, and I've looked quite a bit.
Again, NJ, you have no PROOF, no FACTS.
Yes, it's a fact those zones have suffered, but can you prove it was because of the ARs? I can't, the state can't, you can't.
Yes, I'm sure it's a fact you've seen many nice bucks shot after a guy passed up a small buck, but that's not the same thing as proving ARs don't work.
I'm asking for just one study, one statistic from a state, anything, showing that scientific evidence supports the fact that ARs lowered the overall buck age structure.
You can continue to write about what you and your buddiees have seen, and continue to point out these zones aren't putting out big buccks like they used to, it's interesting reading, and I agree with most of it, but it's a far cry from a FACT showing it's due to ARs.
In wilddlife management, facts aren gathered from studies, research, data collected from hunters, etc, but decisions are based on those facts, if the state game agency is doing their job correctly.
No accredited wildlife biologist or researcher would consider what happens in a few zones, zones that also included other very dynamic changes at the same time, as facts. Find a zone that kept all the other seasons and bag limits the same, with roughly the same harvest year to year, and implemented ARs and saw a decline in the buck age structure, and that's proof. Maybe it's out there, I'm not trying to show you're wrong, I honestly want to see it. I'm not wasting my time for the sake of argument, I rally want to know if there's any facts showing ARs didn't work. Not facts showing NJ's QDM program didn't work, facts showing ARs didn't work.

I'm not saying it's easy to do, I'm not even saying it's possible, I'm just wondering why supporters of ARs, for example Dr Alt, can show dozens of studies and state statistics showing ARs work, but those against them can't produce even one single instance.

I'm not expecting you to find any facts NJ, I don't even know if NJ implemented ARs in any zones without introducing an extra shotgun season at the same time, or EAB, or something else, and if that's the case, you'll have to look outside NJ to find anything.

Once again, has anybody ever come forward with hard data showing ARs decrease the overall buck age structure(don't work)?

Cableguy, I agree 100% that there are only theories suppporting Alt's plan. No hard evidencee, no real way to even collect meaningful data.

But how is that different then the way it's always been in PA?







"In heaven, even the fish have antlers"