Well, NJ, I see we're still comparing apples to oranges.
Let's look at the zones you have so much experience in.
You point out the lack of big bucks. Guess what, I see the same thing!
However, you place the blame on ARs. Most of the hunters I talk to, as well as myself, place it on the unlimited shotgun tags given out in these zones.
Zone 35, yes, it has ARs, but it also has 27 days of shotgun hunting, in addition to the regular shotgun, bow, and blackpowder seasons! This January shotgun season allows the hunters unlimited tags, that's right, NO limit, as you know. However many deer you feel like dragging out. I've been hitting it hard the past few weeks on the Eastern Shore you spoke of, trying for one particular buck, and I can tell you 1/3 or more bucks have already shed, especially the older bucks who've rutted heavily. How many of those are shot in the Jaanuary shotgun season? How many button bucks? How many antlered bucks? You allow these clubs to kill as many deer as they want, in a month long gun season, IN ADDITION to the regular gun season, I think there's your lack of bucks right there. How can you possibly submit this zone as "proof" that Ars don't work, knowing this shotgun season exists? You won't admit even the slightest chance that may have somethingg to do with it? No chance at all?

Now, zones 27 and 29 have a January shotgun season that included every Sat in Jan, same regs, unlimited deer.
I believe zone 28 has no ARs, and little public land where the clubs can drive, no? I must admit I'm not as familiar with this zone.

When I say proof that Ars don't work, I'm not looking for a coincidence, but actual proof. There's ton of evidence they work in states in the South East, like Arkansas, etc, all you have to do is read the "deer forcast" in any hunting magazine's August issue, most states have a direct quote from the state biologist attributing larger bucks and an older age class of bucks to ARs. However, none of those states I looked at this morning allowed unlimited antlerless tags in a winter gun season when many of the big bucks count as "antlerless".

As for your explanations as to how AR works in a real world, I could refute everything you're saying, as could anyone. Many feel that the hunter who "would have" shot a 1.5yr old buck, didn't get a buck at all! Older buckls are harder to kill, and the fella sitting on a bucket 100yrds off the road ain't likely to kill too many of them. If your theory was accurate, PA would have had almost the same number of bucks killed this year, except mostly 2.5 and older. That wasn't the case. Lots of reasons why, many hunters only gun hunt, and only take a few days out of the year, those guys are much more likely to shoot a 1.5yr old, than to even see a mature buck, regardless of whether they hunt 2 hours opening morning and shoot a spike, or sit it out for three full days.
Anyway, we could argue theories all day, I was pointing out there were no "facts" to dispute ARs not working. Pointing out a lack of mature bcuks in a zone which also instituted an extra month long shotgun season with unlimited tags isn't proof of anything, except the states total managment plan sucks, and has failed, unless your goal is simply the eradication of all deer and deer related problems.

One other thing, I live in Mercer county, across the street from Mercer cty park. I can ride my bike 2 minutes and see all the bucks I could ever want, I have state game lands withing 10 minutes. But guess what, I think I've missed two weekends since 9/1/02 drivingg 3.5hrs to the Eastern Shore to hunt DE and MD. That shows you my frustration with NJ's managment. I'm looking for some solution to get behind, and like I said I try my best to keeep open minded, but I feel getting rid of ARs isn't the answer.



"In heaven, even the fish have antlers"