Yeah I agree with most of what you said...but..the mast crop that was nonexistant under the snow can't help them. I really think this has alot to do to carry them over the winter. The doe I took was a typical one--@100lbs--nice fat pads--good abdominal fat--but even now, Alt's program is killing the bigger doe. The area I hunt is mostly mountainous--few small fields, but still everything was brown and contained little nourishment. There is definitel good thickets, and even small creeks. The area is over-browsed, and the herd did need thinning. The game commission even pointed this out. (We always get checked there)(Never paid a fine!) But, overallI agree with what you said,as I know alot of deer do not get old. I always hunt my uncle's private farm up in Montour county, Pa and things are different there. It is only hunted by me, my brother and his son. I have a couple of 20"ers from up there on our walls!,but missed one on the last Saturday this year. He didn't get that big by being stupid. Later.