Oh yes, black frog, I personally understand all what you said, but as a basic discussion, have you ever seen the demonstration I was referring too? Just needed some backup. We wasn't talking about killing anything. Some guys was saying the 30-06 was a better performer than the 300Win Mag, cause somebody published an article saying it penetrated something better due to the lower velocities. I tried to explain that if you use extremly hard bullets like armore peircing, you can penetrate better, and etc and etc. Anyway, I was just trying to make a point.