I mentioned it but no one else has, the thing about the year and half old buck or 2 and half, he's carrying a lot more meat if you have limited tags. Most does never get to the weight those deer are. There are the exceptions, but they're rare. Who was it on the boards here that shot that whopper of a doe in Western NYa couple years ago, Hillard or someone like that. It dressed at 184. Now that's some meat worth shooting.