A Fine line ....
01-06-2011, 11:04 AM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marylands Eastern Shore
Posts: 15
A Fine line ....
Its a well known fact that one of the laziest animals on the face of the earth is a whitetailed deer ... Given the essentials, food, water and cover and they will spend a lifetime in an area . The only thing lazier than a whitetail is the modern day hunter that pursues them. The sport of hunting has become more of a task of farming and harvesting our livestock in todays hunting world. It has evolved into something that by old timers standards is simply growing deer and giving big kudos to a job well done... but is it really a job well done or will it eventually be the end of hunting as it once was.... the line has been crossed and once that line is crossed its very hard to come back to reality and go backwards....
I'm a kinda old buck myself and have watched the sport take many turns in the wrong direction that I don't agree with but have no power to stop it. The invention and popular use of the 4 wheeler has brought hunters into once sanctuary spots that they would never muster the drive to attempt to walk there let alone drag a huge bodied doe or buck from that spot. The use of baits which for many years were outlawed has nearly become a norm and with that things grow like water sources and low fence feeding areas .
What have we become as hunters other than simply harvesters or farmers ?
Once you cross that line its hard to come back and worse than that is the fact that hunters now teach their children these dreaded "tactics " of hunting deer and the line back to actual hunting will never return .
I am simply amazed that the lust for some big horns has taken prominence over the true meaning of hunting. Don't get me wrong the name of the game is big bucks with large horns , hunters would be lying to themselves if they said anything otherwise but at what cost do we bring to get such animals.. Yes the line has been crossed and its a sad thing imo.
I have much more respect for someone who goes into uncharted public land and puts a good setup on a basket 8 than I do someone who "grows " by way of feeding and giving minerals and such to a Boone & Crockett buck. The real expert is the guy who can make it happen without using todays lazy methods of feeding and growing deer and lets nature do her thing and simply outsmarts and outplays the big or small deer.
I've read time and time again about people griping about high fenced big deer being shot , but I got some bad news for the modern day hunter, what they do by way of 6000 pounds of corn and water troughs etc etc is not any different , its become a shame and I am glad I never fell prey to any of those tactics , and have saved myself some dough in the process. Its really not about the trophy in my eyes as much as it is about the time afield and the beauty of what is out there that many don't experience. Sure I pass bucks up in hopes of a legitimate big giant horned whitetail buck but that is mostly because I would rather eat a doe , they simply taste better to me.
I personally think they need a seperate catagory of trophy animal that was harvested by natural means with no help along the way by using todays baiting, modern (frankly lazy) method of simply growing deer and harvesting them . I have seen my fair share of huge bucks that I have never had the chance to kill but by simply pulling of enough knowledge to get in range of them has been more than enough satisfaction to me ...
I think sometimes we all need to take a step backwards and teach our children the real meaning of hunting not just that we can grow big deer and shoot them and feel good about it. It will eventually bring the sport to its knees and we will wonder what went wrong when its all but gone ......
Yes folks its a fine line and it has been crossed , the real question is can it be crossed back the other way ???
I'm a kinda old buck myself and have watched the sport take many turns in the wrong direction that I don't agree with but have no power to stop it. The invention and popular use of the 4 wheeler has brought hunters into once sanctuary spots that they would never muster the drive to attempt to walk there let alone drag a huge bodied doe or buck from that spot. The use of baits which for many years were outlawed has nearly become a norm and with that things grow like water sources and low fence feeding areas .
What have we become as hunters other than simply harvesters or farmers ?
Once you cross that line its hard to come back and worse than that is the fact that hunters now teach their children these dreaded "tactics " of hunting deer and the line back to actual hunting will never return .
I am simply amazed that the lust for some big horns has taken prominence over the true meaning of hunting. Don't get me wrong the name of the game is big bucks with large horns , hunters would be lying to themselves if they said anything otherwise but at what cost do we bring to get such animals.. Yes the line has been crossed and its a sad thing imo.
I have much more respect for someone who goes into uncharted public land and puts a good setup on a basket 8 than I do someone who "grows " by way of feeding and giving minerals and such to a Boone & Crockett buck. The real expert is the guy who can make it happen without using todays lazy methods of feeding and growing deer and lets nature do her thing and simply outsmarts and outplays the big or small deer.
I've read time and time again about people griping about high fenced big deer being shot , but I got some bad news for the modern day hunter, what they do by way of 6000 pounds of corn and water troughs etc etc is not any different , its become a shame and I am glad I never fell prey to any of those tactics , and have saved myself some dough in the process. Its really not about the trophy in my eyes as much as it is about the time afield and the beauty of what is out there that many don't experience. Sure I pass bucks up in hopes of a legitimate big giant horned whitetail buck but that is mostly because I would rather eat a doe , they simply taste better to me.
I personally think they need a seperate catagory of trophy animal that was harvested by natural means with no help along the way by using todays baiting, modern (frankly lazy) method of simply growing deer and harvesting them . I have seen my fair share of huge bucks that I have never had the chance to kill but by simply pulling of enough knowledge to get in range of them has been more than enough satisfaction to me ...
I think sometimes we all need to take a step backwards and teach our children the real meaning of hunting not just that we can grow big deer and shoot them and feel good about it. It will eventually bring the sport to its knees and we will wonder what went wrong when its all but gone ......
Yes folks its a fine line and it has been crossed , the real question is can it be crossed back the other way ???
01-06-2011, 11:50 AM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio
Posts: 127
I have to agree with most of what you said. I personally bow hunt, but have decided to give a muzzleloader a try this year. In my opinion, it is hard to lump feeding/minerals into the same category as high fence hunting, neither of which I have a problem with, if done correctly. I do have a problem with "pen" hunting though. I too believe that line has been crossed and don't think it will ever return to what it once was. Times have changed and I am sure will continue to change and evolve in the future.
Good post. Hopefully it will stay civil.
Good post. Hopefully it will stay civil.
01-06-2011, 12:08 PM
#3
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marylands Eastern Shore
Posts: 15
Civil would be nice 
Anyone who is older would know where I am coming from on this , although many of these methods are legal it seems that its ruining the sport and bringing greed over satisfaction to the forefront ...
Anyone who is older would know where I am coming from on this , although many of these methods are legal it seems that its ruining the sport and bringing greed over satisfaction to the forefront ...
01-06-2011, 12:27 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio
Posts: 127
I agree with "greed" part for sure. Hunting has become a very commercial "sport"! I think the commercialization is worse than the actual tactics. Most hunting products have much better marketing than results. We buy this crap because we want instant gratification and don't really want to work for it. I try to stay somewhat traditional, but do get caught up in making it easier sometimes, although I don't use or own an ATV or use any enhancing minerals, and I am lucky enough to live in an area full of farm land so I don't need to bait.
01-06-2011, 03:17 PM
#6
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mechanicsville, VA
Posts: 100
Another point...
Please understand this reply is in no way to disparage what you believe about the good old days in whatever land you are from. This is my opinion about the area I grew up in.
I have to say that whatever hunting once was around here, I think we (Hunters) have improved it greatly. In VA, the “Good Old Days” frequently involved hunting for days looking for a deer and not even seeing tracks. Over hunting and poor game management as well as disregard for whatever game laws there was took the VA deer herd to numbers so low, that there was a time not that long ago, that you just did not see many deer at all…ever. The 1950’s and ‘60s were before my time, but I remember plenty of stories. Also, you stood a really good chance of getting shot even though that was BEFORE modern Camo!
I started hunting with by Dad as a boy in the 1970’s. We saw a few deer here and there thanks to the dogs running them, and had very few places to hunt at that time for various reasons.
As a Teen, I took to the woods more on my own. Learning more, and spending more time afield than my dad could because of his work schedule. Still, deer were not seen every day and to see a buck was real treat. To see a 16+ wide 8 pointer in the woods was a miracle!
Now today, with proper game management, the deer in VA are at the other end of the spectrum. We see deer almost every trip and a 8 pointer 3 year old deer is a common occurrence. Plus, there are more than enough deer to carefully fill your freezer with the ones you wish to select. You simply have more choices than ever before. There are so many deer that VDGIF has imported Coyotes into parts of the state to help control them! Something I have a big problem with since we have nothing to control yotes with! I fear (FEAR) that one day we will back to those not so good old days when the coyotes are done eating 9 out of 10 of every newborn fawn in areas where they cannot be controlled. (Not to get off point)
I’m glad we have developed hunting to the place where we are now. Yeah, I’d love to go out west for some real wild adventure where there are no roads but heck, they had horses since the white guys showed up right? (That was a joke in case you missed it)
I submit to you that RIGHT NOW, we are living in the “Good Old Days” of hunting. It is safer for sure with more and better gear. We have much greater opportunity to harvest nice animals, even on public lands. I also think it’s arguable that there are less of us in the woods!
I have to say that whatever hunting once was around here, I think we (Hunters) have improved it greatly. In VA, the “Good Old Days” frequently involved hunting for days looking for a deer and not even seeing tracks. Over hunting and poor game management as well as disregard for whatever game laws there was took the VA deer herd to numbers so low, that there was a time not that long ago, that you just did not see many deer at all…ever. The 1950’s and ‘60s were before my time, but I remember plenty of stories. Also, you stood a really good chance of getting shot even though that was BEFORE modern Camo!
I started hunting with by Dad as a boy in the 1970’s. We saw a few deer here and there thanks to the dogs running them, and had very few places to hunt at that time for various reasons.
As a Teen, I took to the woods more on my own. Learning more, and spending more time afield than my dad could because of his work schedule. Still, deer were not seen every day and to see a buck was real treat. To see a 16+ wide 8 pointer in the woods was a miracle!
Now today, with proper game management, the deer in VA are at the other end of the spectrum. We see deer almost every trip and a 8 pointer 3 year old deer is a common occurrence. Plus, there are more than enough deer to carefully fill your freezer with the ones you wish to select. You simply have more choices than ever before. There are so many deer that VDGIF has imported Coyotes into parts of the state to help control them! Something I have a big problem with since we have nothing to control yotes with! I fear (FEAR) that one day we will back to those not so good old days when the coyotes are done eating 9 out of 10 of every newborn fawn in areas where they cannot be controlled. (Not to get off point)
I’m glad we have developed hunting to the place where we are now. Yeah, I’d love to go out west for some real wild adventure where there are no roads but heck, they had horses since the white guys showed up right? (That was a joke in case you missed it)
I submit to you that RIGHT NOW, we are living in the “Good Old Days” of hunting. It is safer for sure with more and better gear. We have much greater opportunity to harvest nice animals, even on public lands. I also think it’s arguable that there are less of us in the woods!
01-07-2011, 03:23 AM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 970
While some things have changed for the worse, many other changes have been made for the better.
Scottdnramember hit some good things on the head. I was not old enough to hunt until the early 90s, but when I listen to the stories of those who did in the 50s, 60s, and into the early 70s when the deer herd population in Wisconsin was so low that seeing deer was never a given. I don't even know why my family even still goes deer hunting. How my Father and Uncles kept the interest in hunting going through the 60s just never ceases to amaze me.
Proper deer management has brought the herd up to all new highs, even if the local miss-steps lowered it in some regions, it's still better than it used to be.
Not only that, but Scottdnramember brought gear into the spotlight. Our gear today is so much better than what we had years ago aside from the rifles being used at any rate. Wisconsin had it's first year on record with no firearms accidents ever. Everything has become safer from the clothes we wear, to the stands we use, and to the safety rules that most hunters follow.
There are just as many who don't illegally bait deer where I hunt as those that do. The best hunters in our area are the ones who don't. Those are the ones who do the work to scout the deer, and we are the ones that traditionally harvest the better bucks each year.
Even with a low population of deer in area 8 of Wisconsin my Father and I harvested a couple of nice 8 pts, and had the one buck moved further south, the guy who cut my Father off on that trail would never have gotten the big 10 pt buck he took. It was a 4.5 or 5.5 year old buck with a 20" inside spread. A very nice buck taken on public land.
Many people still hunt as hunting should be done. Sadly, there are many that don't though. When I made my just shy of 3 mile drag this year I was exausted, tired, and happy. Where I hunt you can't take any type of vehicle in on the old logging trails. It's all walking in and hunting. Not many are willing to do that, and I'm willing to take the bucks I have to work for.
Scottdnramember hit some good things on the head. I was not old enough to hunt until the early 90s, but when I listen to the stories of those who did in the 50s, 60s, and into the early 70s when the deer herd population in Wisconsin was so low that seeing deer was never a given. I don't even know why my family even still goes deer hunting. How my Father and Uncles kept the interest in hunting going through the 60s just never ceases to amaze me.
Proper deer management has brought the herd up to all new highs, even if the local miss-steps lowered it in some regions, it's still better than it used to be.
Not only that, but Scottdnramember brought gear into the spotlight. Our gear today is so much better than what we had years ago aside from the rifles being used at any rate. Wisconsin had it's first year on record with no firearms accidents ever. Everything has become safer from the clothes we wear, to the stands we use, and to the safety rules that most hunters follow.
There are just as many who don't illegally bait deer where I hunt as those that do. The best hunters in our area are the ones who don't. Those are the ones who do the work to scout the deer, and we are the ones that traditionally harvest the better bucks each year.
Even with a low population of deer in area 8 of Wisconsin my Father and I harvested a couple of nice 8 pts, and had the one buck moved further south, the guy who cut my Father off on that trail would never have gotten the big 10 pt buck he took. It was a 4.5 or 5.5 year old buck with a 20" inside spread. A very nice buck taken on public land.
Many people still hunt as hunting should be done. Sadly, there are many that don't though. When I made my just shy of 3 mile drag this year I was exausted, tired, and happy. Where I hunt you can't take any type of vehicle in on the old logging trails. It's all walking in and hunting. Not many are willing to do that, and I'm willing to take the bucks I have to work for.
