I'm in Champaign Co.. The deer w/the doe's was a smaller buck that I saw with the big one, he's not bad either.. I tried to get a shot of the big one facing me but he had other plans. Several other guys that hunt the area have guessed him at 24-25" wide! & I know what you mean about looking wider going away what it takes for an 8 pointer to score that high, when he's looking at ya you can see he is 5-6" past his ears! When I first saw this deer I thought he was a very nice 10 but after seeing him several times I discovered he was a massive 8. I just wish you guys could see these deer first hand.. lol I saw a buck tonight that was AMAZING!! I'll try to get him on film & show everyone. Later, Phil B.