RE: Anthropomorphism and what animals "feel"
Wyomingtrapper,
I enjoy these discussions and appreciate you taking the time to post.
Your response has me a little confused. I’m not sure what information you’re looking for, since you don’t seem to want to entertain different perceptions on the subject and the associated definitions, as you refer to “semantics”. Due to us all being different people, with different backgrounds and different life experiences, we’re going to have different feelings/opinions on this subject. Further, it is my opinion that there is no black and white on this subject, only a bunch of grays. Which is why I think you’ve been using the term “abstract”, based on us or you, not being able attribute a strict definition to our (the people you’ve summoned here) feelings on this subject. Further, I’ll have to look into it, but I don’t agree with your definition or interpretation of “Anthropomorphism”, which I understand as ascribing human characteristics to inanimate objects or animals. You seem to be using this term at a much narrower level and are focusing it on abstract thinking/emotion associated with animals, which would be abstract itself, since we can’t wrap our arms around this subject and define it to a level that would be acceptable to all involved. It is subjective at best, an assertion of opinion if you will.
One of the oldest artifacts that points to us, thinking logically is the ostrich egg that was buried containing water. It had one small hole on the top and was plugged with grass. This shows evidence of us being able to project the negative repercussions of our decisions, to perhaps travel further away from a water source, and then creating a plan to overcome, so that we can venture out beyond our previous limits. According to a lot of experts this egg is a truly defining moment in the development of man and logical thinking. But when I look at this scenario, I can’t find much difference between that and a bear burying his dead prey, or a dog burying some bones. Aren’t they planning for the future? Aren’t they acting as if they are aware that they may need this item later, and it is more beneficial at this point in time to continue down a different road, but be ready to come back to this spot for a meal if the other road doesn’t pan out? Or am I ascribing too many human characteristics to them? What this tells me is that before the ostrich egg was hidden by man, we didn’t think as clearly as a dog does now, or whenever dogs started burying bones, and had no better future plans either. We were confined by our limits, as we are today, be it abstract, emotion or logic. Sure we’ve moved way past other animals on many levels, but I think we’re using the same set of tools.
Two areas of debate that I can see here are death, and animals understanding of it. Along with your apparent separation between humans and animals. Your words show me that there is more to this separation than logic and cognitive emotion in regards to you and your feelings. You have emotionally disconnected yourself form the animals as well as other humans who seem to see more similarities between humans and animals than you do, again this being a gray area. This is the more interesting and abstract subject matter in my opinion. My opinion is that the animals have a better understanding of death than a lot of people, maybe even you. I think not understanding death is a more logical starting point, at least if the objective is to understand the truth, than for one to play a game of trickery on ones self. We think that we’re the only beings that understand death, and that it is beyond the other animals comprehension. But when facing death, and the truths that surrounds it, it becomes so stressful that us logically thinking primates go into a pattern of denial. It gets so intense that we start telling each other stories/lies to the point where we begin to believe them, haven’t we just entered into some state of mental illness? You’re the licensed professional, you give the illness a name, I’m sure it has one, I’m just not smart enough on the subject to be able to define it. Maybe some sort of delusional fantasy derived from extreme fear? Either way they (the religious) give this disorder their own set of definitions, like faith, to name one. From my perspective the word faith when referring to a faith in god, simply means – I have successfully tricked myself into not fearing death. As far as everyday life, I guess there is no problem with this trickery, but that is what it is. These same people make statements like “I’m not afraid of death”, or “I’m not scared to die”. Talk about powerful, wow! I envy them to be honest, because once you accept the truth about death; you simply live in fear of it, like all the other people, but consciously. The only way that I can describe it would be like sitting in the electric chair, waiting for the clock to strike your predetermined time of death, executioners hand on the switch. Same level of stress, just spread out and subsequently diluted by time. But there is some level of comfort in being honest with yourself, it does create a sense of peace in some strange way.
Why would this same person, who is religious, and is comfortable in life and death, also urinate and or defecate in instances of extreme fear, just as you mentioned with animals showing fear? What do they have to fear? Not death, according to their faith anyway. But it happens… and it happens because they are truly scared, because they too, deep down don’t know. They don’t know whether they’re going to live, die, go to heaven, hell or just plain die and decay like the other animals, that they have spent a lifetime separating themselves from.
These same people grow up and go off to college. They study all kinds of things and memorize all kinds of vocabulary words, they are now smart, intelligent and intellectual – some proclaim. They study big words like Anthropomorphism, and they try to get down into the nitty-gritty of one small part of the meaning, and somehow associate it with or as a weakness or illness, but at the same time sit there like a deer in the headlights, totally unaware of the other illnesses, ones that they may have, and fuel their desire to focus on the easy ones, the ones that don’t have prerequisites of an open mind and being able to look inward and accept truth and death for what it is. Ones that may contradict their upbringing and beliefs, their faith. Ones that may strip the false sense of security in a abstract fantasy world away from them, and leave them to live the rest of their lives in fear, or truth, you pick.
You can say that these are two different topics, and to some degree they are, but they’re also very much connected. The outcome of your study has already been decided by your faith when studying anthropomorphism. The church already guided you. You don’t have reason to question them, because you have faith. You just need to funny the numbers, and in a way that will allow you to believe it too (hypothetically speaking of course).
Are you a man of faith?
Are you capable of conducting an unbiased study on this subject?
Do you suffer from cognitive dissonance either in regards to your faith as a whole, or when combining your faith to your work or studies such as this one?
Have a great day,
KP