Thanks guys, I ordered the Beman ICS hunters today. I was thinking about the Gold Tip but wasn't sure which size I would need. They were about the same price as the Easton epics so that was a good surprise. I have some of the old Beaman camo hunters. They are good arrows but are the absolute worst finish I have ever seen on an arrow. They are rough and comes off when you scrape vanes off. They will adhere to my normal target made out of black board and are almost impossible to pull out. The last 6" of the arrows has the target material fused to them. I hate to think what they would do in a 3d target. I to have found the ACC to be very accurate but I had one to accuatly bend one time. I didn't think this was possible but it bent like a rainbow. I can't bring myself to pay 100.00 for shafts that will bend. Don