okay bob, warped and wrong, i dont want a pissing match, I've said what Ive seen in many circles i've traveled in,but your right you must know exactly what happens in all traditional circles. I'm not proud of it but i've been party to it. I've even witnessed a tradition vs compound agument at a trade show. it all started with a traditionalist boothcalling a compound booth, cripple sticks, it esculated from there. the compounders didn't start it but i guess it didn't happen either right. again, I didn't accuse anyone but have seen it as a whole. it's not right, just apparant.