Ok grumpy pants, they're doing better than you think...I'm sorry WSMs and I upset you.....man you are funny!!!! I know my150 grain winchester supreme BST is going a good 3300 FPS when I hunt deer. I believe your Win Mag. is slower in that category. Correct me if I'm wrong. 180 grainers are almost identicle from what I've read in Guns and Ammo Magazine.?????