thanx guys i will look at them when the time comes...BGfisher...my dad bowhunted for a few years and took a few deer...one of which was a pretty nice buck..but he didnt get into it much...im not sure why...i think he said he lost a doe once and didnt like that and called it quits...hes like me though loves being close to game and everything..maybe after i bag a few bruisers he will start again..normal people set up rifle huntign so their shots are about 100yds or so...we set up so ours are no farther than 50yds...and are on the ground..its a rush to see a deer...i cant wait to bow hunt and have them right under me..thanx for the info guys