Tazman, I'm not labeling all drives. Read my original post. "I'm not talking about gently pushed deer." I watched three seperate drives and witnessed at least 20 shots being fired. No deer were taken and most of the deer were out of range. These guys were hooting and hollering. A slow push IS effective and results in decent shot opportunities that are both safe and humane. My problem are the guys that hit as many places as they can, don't follow up, and hunt without previously stepping into the woods. A gentle push drive doesn't shut down the deer for everyone else. I get tired of seeing deer with their tongues hanging out from running from one tract to another. People reading this should know that if you're the type that only gives a crap about getting your group their quota of deer and screw everyone else, then yes I am out to offend because they offend me. I believe we owe something to the animals we hunt and a certian amount of fairness is in ordera as we are supposed to be the ones to be able to reason. Most of the guys and gals on this site are ethical, I see it in your posts everyday. I'm venting at those SOBs that I see far too often. Like I said I quit deer hunting for 25 years and nothing has changed as far as I can see. I'm even living 5 states away from where I started and I get the same sick feeling. My 10 year old son witnessed that on his first season and felt so sorry for the deer he asked me if we could go home, he wouldn't go back out after that first morning. Out of the mouth of babes....

THWACK!