furgitter, I am glad someone else seems to remember those death traps. I remember one winter clammering up the tree and it was covered in ice. It was up 2 feet, down one, up two, down two and so on. Also went to set my feet one time, treestand slipped, and I slid down the tree until a stub of a branch i had sawed off broke my fall... and a rib. Had to climb the rest of the way down with one arm. Now I can sleep comfortably in my Summit