Then we really disagree. I've probably killed more deer than just about anyone I know with a bow. I've probably kiled deer that most wcould only hope to get. I say we're now growing deer for "ME".. "Macho" more than we are to enjoy the hunt. Today's QDM craze tends to degrade a hunter who might choose to shoot a lesser buck than "THE BOOK CONSIDERS". It didn't use to be that way. It was hunting. Today it's Score, Pope and Young, Boone and Crockett. Times haven't changed, people have... and I'm not sure it's for the best of hunting. You talk of "Degrading the animal". That statement alone is what I call the phony part of todays QDM craze. Hell, you're going out to kill the damn thing. For what reason? Exactly, you don't give a crap about the animal, it's all about hunting. If you really didn't want to degrade him you'd build him a house and plant a biologic field to live in until he was older than me. Standards haven't changed... hunting has. Hunters have. Don't begrudge the guy who doesn't agree with your let 'em grow so I can have big horns. I hunt to kill. I do it when I choose. OH, and Bully for you.. you've seen a 180 class deer. I tend to find that most of those turn up to be a lot less when the die. And where you live does make a difference in what you see.