kgkoon...ya..it was 40-50yds...i picked the biggest lane and touched off when i seen the first deer in the scope...i got lucky and had a pretty clear lane...i was on a track made by the loggers that wasnt quite as grown up we and could see pretty clear for 25 yds or so then the saplings started again..its not a thicket thicket its a sapling thicket that is starting to grown up...i think i will take the neck shot if one walks straight at me...and a head shot if one walks straight away(both only if conditions are perfect...) and stay with the lung shot when broadside which most of my shots are...now i know what to do when one walks right away or right at me...thanx...guys why not give up im going to do what i want i know my capabilities..i mean sure your trying to save a deer but im not a moron..it would make me sick to blow a jaw off..im not a lead flingger...one round goes in the mauser and thats it..ive been taught to make that one round count and so far i have..and im a good shooter...i know 90%of the kids in my school couldnt take the doe i did running and i was standing free hand..i know my capabilities..and my equiptment im not going to go out and play sniper and try to take every deers head off i shot...just learning some diffrent shots so i will be prepared when i need/can use them...thank you those of you that helped me..