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11-17-2006 | 10:08 AM

#21

jf5

Joined: Feb 2003

Posts: 533

Likes: 0

From: Allston MA USA

RE: Vermont Rules

Quote:

ORIGINAL: CAVermonster
Hi guys. First post, so take it easy on me.......

I grew up in Vermont, my family still lives there, and I still return every year to hunt there. I will actually be flying back tomorrow and hunting first thing Sunday Morning.

My opinion, as a 20+ year hunter in Vermont, is that I don't like this rule at all. Vermont hunters are a different breed. Alot of the state is still the old breed of hunters that hunt for comraderie, fun, and most importantly, food. These hunting restrictions are only needed to increase the size of the antlers, nothing more. If you say it's for the overall health of the heard, I say no way. i have been all over the northeast and through OH, PA, WV, etc., and I can tell you, our deer have always looked great in comparison. The deer are always healthy, strong, etc. And this rule wasn't really made by the hunters. it started with a small group of guys, who travel every year to other southern areas and get bigger bucks, and thought it could work in Vermont. They sent out a survey, and got a decent amount of responses, but nothing more than a fraction of the 80-90,000 that hunt there.

Vermont's heard was weakened in the 80's by massive amounts of doe permits. Before you start accusing me of being one of the old time "Don't shoot does" people, I assure you, I am not. I believe in shooting does, but in a controlled way. The late 80's saw the heard dip. The heard rebounded, and is once again strong. This had nothing to do with the size of the antlers.

As someone said before, it has more to do with weather, etc. The antler restriction may work in Texas, or areas where you don't have to worry about the winters, and you have a huge deer heard, it's great. You have the ability to see 4 or 5 buck a day, and pick and choose which to shoot. In Vermont, the success rate over the years has been about 1 in 7 gets a buck. If i am going to only see a buck to shoot every 7 years, I feel I should have the right to shoot it, wheter or not it's a spike. Also, the funny part is, that spikes only make up part of the 1 1/2 yr olds anyway. Any decent food year will push a yr old deer to a forkie, maybe even a small six.

I have gotten a spike, a 4 point, and a 6 point in my years of hunting there. I valued every single one as a trophy. If you think we need people to pass up smaller bucks, fine, there are those that do it. I just don't think you should tell me or anyone else what a trophy should be.

On a side note, my dad had a legal (in pastyears)spike walk by his stand each of the first 2 mornings......

All this aside, i value everyone's opinion, and glad to see such a discussion. I like the looks of this site, and can't wait to join in more..... Good luck to all this fall.......

Welcome to the site and the discussion. good luck on your hunt.

Here's my rant. Take it easy on me too...

Just discussin'

I hear the VT80'sdoe permit commentoften and wonder how 20+ years later it can still be claimed as the cause for the current deer herd. And wonder how does that relate to the high harvest %of spikes before AR.

My father hunted centralVT for decades starting in the late 50's and quit hunting there for good after the 1983 season because of the poor hunting. There where hardly any doe permits used in his area over all that time. In fact, I have talked to him about it an he felt thatthe actuallack of doe harvest in the 60's and early70's contributed to the eventual decline of thecapacity in his area. Seeing 20-30 does for every buck was just not good for the habitat, especially one that was already maturing.

You are right about 1.5 YO deer being anything from a spike to basket racked 8's. But with spikes beingthe vast majority of the buck harvest, the law at least allows some deer another year to gain some experience at evading harvest.I felt the spike rule was a compromise, as there was no way it would have passed with a 3 or 4 pt a side rule. VT had to start somewhere, as what they where doing before was not working. I don't understand why so many guys complain about VT deerhunting but don't want to change anything.While hunting is about camp life and being with friends and family in the outdoors.I still findallot ofVT guys are now hunting NY or Maine instead.

If the majority of the guys where against the regualtion, then why didn't they send in the surveys? Maybe if the malepopulation was bettera guycould have more opportunities than once every 7 years. Maybea guycould have that chance to pass up smaller bucks because there are larger deer available like in other states. VT has had it in the past, it could have it again.

I agree that the winters are a major factor in limiting VT deer. For any program to work, wether its AR's or herd growth. The habitat has to be there. Otherwise its just spinning wheels. Places like Montana and portions of Canada have similar if not worse winters than VT, but still have quality hunting because the winter habitat is there.

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