ive killed with the hollow points before. Maybe the guys shooting higher charges is causing the bullet to explode on inpact? Althought ive shot 150 grains pyrodex and never had any problems with them. 120 grains and 150 grains powder have dropped my deer. I dont shoot through the shoulders, wastes a lot of meat. But damn, Those 2 bullets went through over a foot of fresh cut log. I'll do some more testing once i buy some and i'll try them with the mag loads from my inline. I just was curious to see what they looked like and why people were having so much trouble. Maybe i found the key sweet spot in dropping the deer? lol. i'll find the scale tomorrow and weigh it and get back and post what its weight is. I'll also get a pic of the log i spit, you can see how the bullet traveled and the exited.