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I have noticed that you are not responding to any of these arguments I have put in, whats up?
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Heheheheh!!! This one is hilarious!!! This is your "tell" or "sign" of weakness towards this debate! Do not confuse my lack of a quick response time to being scared. I have other things that need tending too, beside this thread.
You claim victory before the war is over.
SW Iowa Hunter,
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Why is antler size so important to your hunting?
Can you see that it is not that important to alot of people?
What worries me about these threads is that alot of young people are on this site and get ripped for shooting something that is not big enough.
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Antler size is important for the quality of the herd in my area. Mark my words, the experienced hunters that it is not important to, will wind up in the same boat as the states with point restrictions. I can see that it is not important to many here, this is the point or message I am trying to get out there. Keep shooting smaller bucks, and regulation from doing so will soon follow. I have never "ripped" any youngster from shooting a small buck, but if an experienced hunter harvests one and then proceeds to challenge the folks who thought he did wrong, I will jump right in and give my two cents worth!!
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Healthy deer herds? Nature will take care of that? People argue about habitat man is destroying and justify more intrusion by man with QDM with this argument.
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I think it is great that you and others have chosen to only shoot mature bucks, I won't argue that this leads to better genetics and healthier deer ultimately.
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Wow! Let's not talk about me chasing my tail anymore. These two quotes do enough of it already. First you are condemning QDM practices, and then turn around and agree with the very point of this argument that I am making!!!
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QDM takes a large amount of land to be effective. You cannot effectively manage a deer herd without control over the land they are on.
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This is not true. QDM can be practiced and has been practiced well with one hundred acres or less.
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Enjoy the right you have to hunt, and let everyone else enjoy theirs.
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This is what I am trying to accomplish by helping out the herd with QDM techniques so everyone can enjoy it in the future.
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I went the trophy-hunting route for a while you know what happened four years in a row. The buck I was hunting ended up in the grill of someone's car. No joke.
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This argument proves that QDM works. If you've had four quality bucks hit by cars four years running, I would say it works.
Tazman,
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RICHIE and all others, I see RICHIE has acknowledged that in certain instances, taking a dink/scrub bucks, is beneficial to the overall herd in QDM standards, there are some other reasons posted here that jusify the taking of lesser bucks.
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This is a nice try at trying to make me look foolish, why don't you go back and post my entire answer to the senario that you described earlier? It is not how you make it out to be now. Scrub bucks are different from younger bucks, and I state this and how I would react to this situation.
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I will say this though, if next year I notice a big increase in basket 8's, I may just take one.
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Just keep it up, and antler restrictions are soon to follow. If they are scrub bucks that are not developing into quality animals, by all means, take them out. But, just because there are numerous small basket rack bucks, does not necessarily mean that they are all scrub bucks.
Skeeter,
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In this given situation, I would tag the "scrub", since I have a good shot opp and three tags, knowing the area, that he really does nothing to my herd for the buck-side, and I don't need more does. So, his worth is minimal.
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This is exactly what I said in my answer.
JRW,
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I shoot what I shoot because I choose to. Justification to you or anyone else is not even on the radar of consideration.
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For the sake of this debate, it is justifiable, if you choose not to justify your answers, kindly step aside.
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No, you don't need to hunt. You won't die if you don't shoot a deer. For some reason, I highly doubt they starve to death if you don't kill a deer or two for them.
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You are wrong about this statement, I do need to harvest animals for the farmers I hunt on. If not, it puts them in financial strain. I'm sorry I can't prove that fact, but it is a fact.
Once again, your argument comparing this debate to gun ownership, PETA, or Sarah Brady, is not a good example to compare to.
Skeeter,
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That last thing I (or you) want or need is to be told...no that is all wrong.
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This will indeed happen if experienced hunters keep choosing to harvest young bucks.
Big Country,
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If you are a full grown man, with several smaller bucks under your belt, why would you possible WANT to shoot smaller bucks?
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This is the question I have posed several times. The only so-called answer that I receive, is that they "choose to". This type of thinking will eventually lead to necessary restrictions by state agencies to help out the deer herd again.
kgkoon,
You can still enjoy all the activities of a deer camp without having to shoot smaller bucks. I enjoy seeing a youngster get excited about shooting a buck as much as the next guy. But, this argument or debate is about experienced hunters shooting small bucks.
Big Country,
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I really enjoy seeing a young hunter shoot a deer, any deer to make them happy.
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I do too, once again, see my response above.
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I no longer feel the need to kill a buck just for the sake of doing it.
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I'm glad to hear that, I'm sorry to say this is the thinking of most on this thread and in the hunting community as a whole.
Davidmil,
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I shoot them because they're legal and I enjoy it.
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Well, my friend, enjoy it now because it won't last. This is the sure way to antler restrictions.
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Those of you who say you'll only shoot 140 class deer or larger sure do lead a sheltered life. You hunt some public ground in NY, Maryland or PA, and you'd never have to shoot an arrow. I can almost guarantee you'd never see an animal worthy of your bother.
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Why is this? Sounds to me like they could use a good dose of QDM techniques. If everybody (experienced hunters) were on the same page on this one, this wouldn't be the case in these areas.
CAJUNBOWHNTR,
Great overall post!
BOWFANATIC,
This question was not answered for the sake of this debate. A debate is having a stance and backing it up with factual information. Not just an answer like "I choose to".
On a side note, I would like to thank my wife for typing these responses for me! All answers are strictly my own, and without her help in typing them, my fingers would be bloody and I would not even be half way done!!! God, I love her so!!
She also thinks that if we all put the same effort into chores around the house as we do here in this debate, the world would be a much nicer place for everyone...........especially the wives of the group!!!
Edited by - richie3 on 11/30/2002 09:52:17
BOWFANATIC
Non Typical
USA
1104 Posts Posted - 11/30/2002 : 11:05:21
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Just keep it up, and antler restrictions are soon to follow. If they are scrub bucks that are not developing into quality animals, by all means, take them out. But, just because there are numerous small basket rack bucks, does not necessarily mean that they are all scrub bucks.
You keep saying if hunters dont stop shooting young bucks , antler restrictions are soon to come? Please explain this! The states that have imposed antler restrictions have had low doe harvests , so they did what they believe will increase the doe harvest period! If I live in a state that has an excellent doe harvest and yet we still have a large amount of young bucks harvested , what will your warning be?
You are wrong about this statement, I do need to harvest animals for the farmers I hunt on. If not, it puts them in financial strain. I'm sorry I can't prove that fact, but it is a fact.
How does it put them in financial strain? You already condemned the farmers in my area (which you know nothing about) for shooting any type of deer because of crop damage. Which btw was a very ligitimate answer to your question which you chose to downplay with zero factual evidence. Who's answering questions based on emotion???
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If you are a full grown man, with several smaller bucks under your belt, why would you possible WANT to shoot smaller bucks?
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This is the question I have posed several times. The only so-called answer that I receive, is that they "choose to". This type of thinking will eventually lead to necessary restrictions by state agencies to help out the deer herd again.
Still avoiding the answers to your question? You've been answered several times and yet you pick out the vague , yet most important answer to your question , simply because of it's vagueness.
BOWFANATIC,
This question was not answered for the sake of this debate. A debate is having a stance and backing it up with factual information. Not just an answer like "I choose to".
Once again , read all replies and dont skip the ones that give true arguement to your "debate". And for the record , I've given you answers other than "I choose to" (<did I even say that?) What type of factual evidence are you looking for? You haven't provided any! Do you want to see the crop damage reports in my area? Shall I provide you with names and phone numbers of the farmers in my area so you can tell them their all wrong? How much time have you spent in our national forests (northern Wi) to make an educated statement towards a hunter who shoots the first buck he sees because it might very well be the first buck he's seen in a few years? And dont say , why is that? We're talking about vast forests which dont hold the deer numbers that farm country does?
JRW
Non Typical
USA
1897 Posts Posted - 11/30/2002 : 11:43:58
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"For the sake of this debate, it is justifiable, if you choose not to justify your answers, kindly step aside.
I'm not sure what part of "personal choice" isn't getting understood here, but I'm not fluent in any language aside from English. I can recomend a good translation site, if need be.
"You are wrong about this statement, I do need to harvest animals for the farmers I hunt on. If not, it puts them in financial strain. I'm sorry I can't prove that fact, but it is a fact."
Yep. Pull the other one.
JRW
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