I bought some Lazer 2s and was goofing around with them this week end. The were 20 and 22 inch long. I am surpised at how they can like broadheads. The 20 inch Lazers do not like Magnus Stingers and the 22 inch do, go figure! If you are doing everything we are suggesting, try something else. My 2117 shafts like just about anything. Come to think about it I have some 2216s I haven't tried yet.