yea see but ladder stands you have to lean it against a good size tree and where i hunt there arent many of them and i would like to be 10 ft in the air what i was lookin at see because i have mainly cedars and i was just thinkin about making a stand into the cedar tree i already made one but i just want more ideas i have a stand about 8 to 10 feet high right by a corn and protein feeder ill have to post the piktures later when i get them but i ll see if i can find one to give yall an idea