Mypersonal hands on experience is that Hoppes No9 Plus BP Solvent & Patch Lube is simplyoutstanding...don't know about water butit contains kerosene...50 shot range sessions year round in allweather conditions without ever having to wipe between shots, and when I get home a bore so clean that barely a trace of color appears in the bucket of hot soapy water, is all the proof anybody needs.

Had people who know about Hoppes No9 +lined up tp take advantage of the great price I got on it...kept 10 bottles for myself and sold the other 30 bottles immediately...had to turn away otherscontacting me to buy some.

PS:
Anyone who decides tothrow out any Natural Lube 1000, just send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly for you...it's the only bore lube I've used for 15+ years in as many muzzleloaders and the bores are still like new today.