Oh, I almost forgot the reason for the original post but I too just bought my second ladder stand but can't put it up till my dad gets back from prison ministry in brazil. It's twenty feet tall and when I tried to test it out in the back yard I got about half way up the rungs and the seat end came smashing donw and the feet end went up, like a good woman it's top heavy. Will need to have dad help hold the feet end to get it up.