I had a TC Renegade. It was a very nice shooting gun but i didnt buy it brand new. And personally, I dont think the TC hawken is worth $500. Thats just taking advantage of people badly. All of Tc's guns are over priced. You can buy a cva hawken or a traditions hawken for between $285-300 and it will shoot just as good. Theres a pic of what my cheap $277 traditions kentucky flintlock rifle shot at 100 yards off the back of a 4 wheeler. I'll put that gun up against any $500+ rifle. Take The Lyman rifles for example. Most people ive heard talk about them on forums are asking why they are shooting 2 1/2" grounds at 50 yards! Lyman rifle costs over $400 and its shooting crappy 2 1/2" groups at that short of distance? Pretty crappy groups for the money they charge if you ask me.