I am fairly new to calling, couple years experience, but here is an observation. i know reds are supposed to be tougher to call yet even being new I've called them in just as much if not more than grays. I use a woodpecker tape and they really like it. When i play my gray fox pup I rarely see anything. I know 1st thought is there musn't be many grays, but while archery hunting I see grays way more than reds. They are there, unless many others are calling grays specifically and they are used to the pup tape? I have learned a lot from listening to you coyoteseeker, and the others both here and on some other boards. it took me a long time to figure foxes out.