Rem1100 - I do agree with you that needing food from another nation would be a very bad thing, but currently the US creates an enormous surplus each year. Here in New England we are seeing a rise, not a huge one but a rise in small organic farms which are proving profitable. I hope the trend continues andmy family does all it canto support this by buying direct.

AJ52, so it seems we came to an agreement that land values are not going to decrease. As Rem said, it is the shift in populations away from cities that is creating the need and hence the value increases. Without the shift theland value does not appreciate as much. It is the need for those home, densely built or not that is creating the value appreciation.

To my point of some successful farmers, I'll use 2 friends as examples. I have 1 friend in the finger lakes area of NY that runs a 350 head dairy farm on 1700 acres. The property has been in the family for 3 generations and is "owned". They sell off all male calves, and run a tanker truck every other day of milk off the farm. He "owns" litterally millions of dollars in equipment, with the occasional new pieces being financed. He gets some small tax freedoms and does get some subsidizing for land use projects.Is he and his brother rich by some standards?The 2 families may pull in$80k in cash each, but they are worth 10'sof millions of dollars. That is quite a bit more worth than most suburbanites.

Another friend in Northeast Iowa runs beef cattle, 200 + head.He bought this farm with his wifein the same area his family has been farming for years. Now I will admit that the beef market fluctuates greatly, but when he sells off beef he typically does quite well, well enough he is looking at buying a smaller, 300 acre piece next door for $350k. He could swing it. Now, partly this is because he can make some money of the next door farm, but how many suburbanites can afford to buy the house next door as "rental income"? A few, but not many.

I am not saying all farmers are rich, they bust their butts for what they make. That being said, if they work hard AND smart, make good business decisions... they can make as much as any other working stiff in the system with the added benefit that what they are doing for work is wholly owned or at the very least an asset worth far more than what the average Joe has. It takes a special kind of person to do well at farming, as unlike other jobs it requires 100% self motivation each and every day. I think the problem with many farmers isn't that they can't make money, it's just that like in everything else in life, there are some hard working people, there are some decent effort but not motivated people and then there are slackers.

Which comes back to my point with the woman who owns the land this thread is about. She did what she wanted with her land. Made a few bucks on her trees and thumbed her nose at the local government. All legal and within her rights.