Trapperjohn, we just get tired counting past 6 or 7. When I talk to my friends back east I always call it a 4x4 or 5x5 or ect. That way they know what I am talking about. The local boys here, I would call it a 4 pointer or a 5. I would not call a 4x4, a 8 pointer. When you are in Rome, you do as the Romans. Good luck this season, Bobby