Roskoe: What rifle are you using? I did similar comparison of Black Mag'3 with 777 and found higher velocity with the BM3 although it was with a stainless Omega. I suspect that you may also have a longer barrel rifle. Most of the Ascorbic acid based powders seem to do better in longer barrels. I had some report less velocity with shorter barrels when compared with 777. The softer recoil of the ascorbic acid powders is another result of the slower pressure rise rates compared with 777.