Had to add this site so you could all see how ugly it is! yes even in our own back yard squirrelkilla23[:@] I used to think this was only rich people did out west with thousands of acers but their is ugly every were you go! I dont fault the ranch, it's a business and the deer are livestock. But the lazy slobs that go to these places are the ones that need hog tied! Here it is... http://www.whiteoakhunting.com/whitetail.asp