man this thread got off track it went from a simple request for information on how to solve a problem, to a shiny-dulland a hunting meathod debate as I said before I use the first cleaning patch to wipe any brass I want dulled it will take the shine off over night and leave a nice tarnished look also regular cold bluing works on brass but can get plenty dark if left on to long both meathods can be polished off if you ever change you'r mind.