Foliage regulates most of my setups however I do try to be over 20' if possible. When using my climbing stands, I climb until I feel the bow come off the ground on my 25' rope. When using my lockons, I have 20' of climbing sticks and others I utilize what I can to make at least 20'. Couple that with my ASAT 3D, I've never been picked out while drawing etc....usually I can dance a jig up there with deer below me. I film, take still photo's and even talk to deer without being detected. Of course I'm not talking to my shooter deer but the little ones I do...