Sabotloader said:

Pglasgowhas some really good points about the full bore conicals, we, he and I are both fishing just trying to justify our of bullets.

Let me start by saying that I am giggling at the moment. I really do like the way we share our beloved muzzleloading experiences here. Always in good humor. Let me say that I don't feel that sabotloader needs to justify his bullet, nor do I the bullet I use. Sabotloader has done what every responsible muzzleloader should do. He has found a load which has the performance he desires and is fully capable of taking the game he is hunting for. My hat is off, I am proud to consider sabotloader a comrade in muzzleloading arms.

Let mealso saythat I live in Colorado. I want to leave my sights set for muzzleloading season, even when i hunt with my muzzleloader during regular gun season. Sabotsthen, really aren'tan option for me. Even so, I would still choose full bore conicals for Elk. Here is why.

1. More muzzle energy can be taken from a powder charge. My elk hunting load IS no more than90 grains of RS.

2. The bullets in heavier weights have good ballistics retaining this energy downrange.

3. I like the expansive qualities of solid point pure lead conicals for carving a deep and deadly wound channel in big game.

I would like to think that the Colorado DOW actually cares that Elk are taken during muzzleloading season with effective bullets.

I'll throw him one more hook and barb - if coniclas are so darn good and that much better than copper clad bullets;how come we are not shooting them in these modern days and modern guns? We could load them into cartridges...

Allow me to answer this in a round about way. The advent of smokeless powder meant that higher velocities were possible within the pressure limitations of the steel which our modern centerfire rifles are constructed from. But at these velocities, a pure lead bullet literally deforms in flight (above 2150 fps or so) and comes to pieces on impact with game. So a copper-jacket is necessary to inhibit the deformation of the bullet in flight and to control its expansion while penetrating game.

The blackpowder rifle is not a high-velocity small bore rifle. It is large bore operating at a fraction of the pressure of its modern small bore relatives. It needs a bullet designed to expand at lower velocities. The pure lead conical serves this purpose very, very, well.

I made this point in another post. The pinnacle of the art of blackpowder was achieved in the buffalo cartridge rifle. I am sorry, but I just can't agree that a sabot with light copper-jacketed bullet would have improved the 45/70 government as long as it is loaded with black powder. I think big bores and heavy conicals go together when using black powder andgoing after Elk-sized (or buffalo sized game).

Happy Hunting, Phil